Talking Past Each Other: Western vs. Georgian Perspectives on Harassment

Yeah, the title is a mouthful.

I realized something, just now, that I regard as so important that instead of going back to sleep (it’s 6am and I’ve had less than five hours) I’m going to stay up and post about it. Hopefully at the end this post will be worth it. Who can say?

So this is what happened: I was surfing the internet (following up on facebook links, etc) when I came across an old article that I had seen before, but which I considered worth a reread: Schrödinger’s Rapist: or a guy’s guide to approaching strange women without being maced. I posted the article on facebook, saying that it should be required reading for all men in Georgia. In reality, I think it should be required read for every human on Earth – but yes, especially Georgians, and I’ll get to why.

The basic gist of the article is this: due to the shockingly high number of American women who get raped (the article says one in six, some say one in four, I don’t care to argue over numbers this time so we’ll go with “shockingly high”) or otherwise assaulted or harmed by men, most American women incorporate concern for their personal safety into every aspect of their daily routine in ways that men are perhaps unaware of. One of these things is assessing the threat level of strangers. If you are a stranger, there are various subtle and not-so-subtle ways that you can influence that assessment in either direction, and the author describes some.

Most significantly, the author points out that if you behave in ways that suggest that your desire to interact trumps a woman’s right to be left alone, most women will (quite sensibly) up your estimated threat level because the idea that your desires trump a woman’s rights is the idea that underpins rape. Anyway, read the article; she says it better than I could.

Now, the principle reason that an article such as this needed to be written was not, in my opinion, that well-meaning men needed advice on how to approach strange women. The more important reason, I believe, is that the article frames the “all men are potential rapists” argument in such a way as to expressly avoid impugning the character of each and every particular man. In other words, it collapses the false dichotomy between a woman’s rational concern for her own safety and a man’s desire to be seen as a good and moral person.

I think it’s incredibly important for every man to realize that no matter how nice and good and un-rapey you are, a woman cannot read your mind and therefore you must not expect her to trust you until she is good and ready.

*****

So this is what’s on my mind when I write about issues like male-female interactions in Georgia. I have an internalized understanding that the reason why it is bad to pull over your cab to propose to the American girl cowering in your back seat late at night not once, but three times, is not only that it is disrespecting her time and her right to use a public conveyance unmolested and disregarding her words and her clearly expressed lack of interest – but more importantly, it is bad because each time you pull over to propose you are ratcheting up that threat level. You are making another human being increasingly terrified that you are going to rape her.

And to a lesser extent, the same thing is happening every time a Georgian man is “persistent” with a foreign woman; every time a Georgian stranger follows a foreign woman, or shouts proposals at her; every time a host-male-relative gets a little too friendly or takes the patroni thing a little too far.

And I would never think to spell it out this way, because to me it’s intuitively obvious, but I’ve come to realize that this is not the case for Georgians.

*****

What’s the Georgian party line on male-female interactions? We’ve all heard it, say it with me: “Georgian men know how to treat women. Georgian men know how to respect women. Georgian men were the most desired husbands in the entire USSR. Women are completely safe in Georgia.”

And then if you complain about the behavior of a particular Georgian man: “Don’t be insulted. He didn’t mean anything by it.”

This baffled me. I admit, I was not the best intercultural communicator – rather than try to understand what Georgians meant when they used the word “insult” over and over to describe a situation that was clearly not about insults, I simply assumed that every single Georgian I spoke to about the matter was stupid or ignorant or misusing the English language. Not once in the fourteen months since Sex in Georgia went up did I ever stop to try to understand why all these Georgians kept using that same word – “insult” – until today.

It turns out – and this is just a theory – that to Georgians, being propositioned for sex might be considered insulting.

And I feel like an idiot for not realizing this before. Because Georgians were saying it – I was just not listening. Hell, *I* was even saying it.

Georgian men are primed to think of foreign women as potential prostitutes – this is what we’re all told and what I’ve repeated several times. And that’s why, we are told, some Georgian men act the way they do towards Western women. And that’s why, we are constantly told, Georgian women aren’t subject to the same levels of harassment as foreign women.

And so I think – and again, just a theory – I think that when we complain about this behavior, Georgians think that we are upset because Georgian men implied that our women are whores.

See, in Georgia, prostitutes are morally inferior people (and anyone who does not strictly conform to the virginity institution etc. is considered a prostitute/slut/ნაშა/ბოზი/etc.) and thus implying that someone is, or might be, a slutty slutty ho is a giant fucking insult. And so when Georgian men proposition Western women for sex, what they’re really doing is heavily implying that all Western women are whores.

Georgian men, by the way they behave towards us, are basically saying that our women – our mothers, our sisters, our daughters – are dirty, dirty whores.

I never realized this before, but they’ve been insulting us this whole time.

And THAT’s why, whenever any of us get pissy about it, they all rush to assure us that they didn’t mean any insult. That’s why, in the mind of a Georgian person, the response “it’s not their fault, it’s just that Russians women are all whores so they thought your women were whores too” actually makes sense as a response to the statement “Georgian men harass Western women all the time.”

*****

So let me try to put this as clearly as possible. Georgian men: Westerners don’t care if you think Western women are prostitutes. We understand that you consider allowing women the autonomy to make their own sexual choices scandalous and immoral. We understand that you choose to see the world in terms of mothers and whores and to be brutally honest, we pity you for it. We understand that your idea of respecting women corresponds almost exactly to our idea of degrading and humiliating women, and we judge you, not ourselves, accordingly.

So again, the problem is not that you are insulting Western women. The problem is that you are frightening them. The problem is that they are alone in a strange country where they do not speak the language and do not understand the customs, and you are behaving towards them in a way that increases, rather than decreases, their discomfort and apprehension. The problem is that they are already on high alert because they are in an unfamiliar situation, and then you come along and badger them and ignore their verbal and nonverbal cues to leave them the hell alone, all of which leads them to the (reasonable, in their position) conclusion that you are unacceptably likely to try to rape them.

In other words, the problem is that you consistently put your desire to interact with Western women above their right to feel safe and secure in their person.

*****

And it’s sad, because there are a lot of great Georgian men out there. You who are reading this might be one of them. And if you are, my advice is this: read that article. Consider your approach. Approach Western women with an understanding that her estimation of how much of a threat you are is not a condemnation of your character, but a product of her environment, personality, and past experiences; but also with an understanding that you can mitigate some of that if you behave in a way that is respectful and non-threatening.

But also – be reasonable. If she’s 22 and you’re 50 and drive a cab, she’s not going to marry you. Let it go, dude.

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24 Responses to Talking Past Each Other: Western vs. Georgian Perspectives on Harassment

  1. tnlr says:

    —————————————–
    >> in Georgia, prostitutes are morally inferior people

    >> It turns out that to Georgians, being propositioned for sex might be considered insulting.

    >> Implying that someone is, or might be, a slutty slutty ho is a giant fucking insult

    >> Georgian men, by the way they behave towards us
    >> are basically saying that our women are dirty, dirty whores.

    >>Georgian men – you choose to see the world in terms of mothers and whores
    —————————————–

    You FINALLY got it, congratulations! 🙂

    Well, it took you 14 month living in the country to understand what is happening and why is happening.

    The question comes – how to change the situation. Honestly I do not see how can it be done without locals starting travelling abroad (in Western countries) in mass numbers and getting exposed to modern Western values.

    One can not have outside of box thinking while still sitting in the box.

    P.S. Happy NY BTW. Something tells me that this year would better for you than previous ones. 🙂

  2. Tom says:

    Thank for this. Really. What a fantastic post.

  3. Andrew says:

    I’ve been living in Georgia for 3 years now and have also had a lot of run ins with this type of thing. As a Western man, some of the behavior I’ve seen is insulting to me as well. Thanks for this post.

  4. Tamuna Kakulia says:

    As a 35-year old Georgian woman who on daily basis is literary fighting for her rights at work or any other place, and a mother of a 10-year-old girl- and a big sister of two fantastic Georgian young women -I do understand and sympathize you. I am very sorry. Yes, there are nice Georgian men but pretty damn rare. I was lucky to marry one of these men. How can we change it? Well, my father often calms me down by saying that eventually things will change with new generations who will travel and familiarize themselves with other cultures, and broaden their horizons. Thank you so much for such a wonderful post.

  5. ndgun-ndgun says:

    Well, read the post , didn’t read the article you’ve linked here. see, it seems that only one real (!) evidence of your conclusions about Georgian men (that Georgian men, by the way they behave towards you are basically saying that your women are dirty, dirty whores ) is that some 50 years old cab driver proposed to the American girl cowering in the back seat late at night. You really think, that this case could be generalized? that could happen everywhere in the world,. drunk people always aren’t capable of controlling their desires and treat some or most of women as whore especially midnight . you think it is the purely “Georgian cultural trait”?
    I agree, that there are some cultural differences , but I don’t believe that all the people here were disrespectful toward all TLG-ers. If you’re talking only about several cases, let’s consider them as an exceptions. I think, the reason of your attitudes are those stupid instructions you’ve received from organizers – something like to encourage American women to procure a cheap ring and wear it on the ring finger to ward off proposals of marriage and so on. maybe It’s more about your Interpretation , but cultural differences should have been explained in more competent ways. So, I don’t blame you, but I expect from you more logical and “positive thinking”
    best regards

    • panoptical says:

      This is a very dishonest comment. I find it insulting.

      First of all, I used the cab driver as an example because I needed to pick one example, not because I only know of one example. The phenomenon of Georgian men making unwanted advances towards foreign women is well documented on this blog and elsewhere and I think you know that.

      Second, I never said that harassment of foreign women is a purely Georgian cultural trait or that all Georgians are disrespectful to all TLGers. Attributing these assertions to me is a dishonest rhetorical tactic and I do not appreciate it.

      I understand that even mentioning problems in Georgian society is insulting to Georgian pride. However, lying about it doesn’t solve the problems – it only makes you look worse.

      • ndgun-ndgun says:

        what you call well documented? how many cases do you know? 5, 10, maybe 100? still It’s not enough to maintain that all Georgians treat Americans like that?

        “Second, I never said that harassment of foreign women is a purely Georgian cultural trait or that all Georgians are disrespectful to all TLGers.” – you did not say that in the same words, but you never noticed some positive attitudes toward you From the local population . If you did, I apologize then.
        “Second, I never said that harassment of foreign women is a purely Georgian cultural trait or that all Georgians are disrespectful to all TLGers” – but you’re saying that Georgian men, by the way they behave towards you are basically saying that your women are dirty whores. you think, there is no correlation between those two statements at all? that’s exactly the generalization I was writing about.

        Okay, If you think that We aren’t aware of our own problems, I have nothing to say then. I said that I don’t blame you that you lie or something . I just think that your discussion is a little bit inconsistent.

  6. Left Eye Looking says:

    Not to sound like a know-it-all, but I knew from day one that they thought that Western Women were dirty dirty whores. It’s the same in Morocco and Tunisia, and many other places, unfortunately. Which is why I was always insulted whenever a Georgian man flirted with, proposed marriage and other things to me.

    Neal don’t you think that the perception of American women is aggravated by Western media with tv shows like Sex in the City? When I lived in Kutaisi, I saw Sex in the City aired on regular television along with tv shows like Pimp My Ride. I’m just offering another perspective. I’ve traveled a lot and unfortunately many people around the world think that Western women are dirty whores, even if they aren’t. There is a lack of critical thinking skills and an analysis of of Western media, so many people accept Canal +, Gaumont, MTV, VH1, BET, movies, tv shows as the gospel truth of life and acceptable social behavior in Western countries.
    One of the things that makes me grind my teeth is the negative and false image of the U.S. in other countries based on Rambo, Predator, The Bold and the Beautiful, and Fox news. I’m just saying……

    I’m not offering an excuse for the male behavior worldwide, but giving a different perspective. Psychologists have done studies and found that even if a person does engage in critical thinking, if they receive the same message repetitiously in the media, they will begin to believe it is true. Plus tv shows, movies, and advertisements are created by marketing analysts with psych/socio degrees. It’s no accident that after watching tv shows with product placement for coke that a person suddenly feels thirsty. They may not want to drink a coke but they will want something to drink. So if a person in Syria has a tv and they are getting the PG version of Sex in the City played once a week and then The Bold and the Beautiful, along with some other shit programming. They will come to the conclusion without much analysis that American, British, Canadian, Aussie, Kiwi, etc, women are “stank ass hos”. As I said, I’m not excusing the behavior but offering a different perspective. It’s not like thousands of Georgian men are getting educated and traveling abroad and experiencing Western life for themselves and concluding, “Oh wow Giorgi, those American/Canadian/British tv shows are bullshit. American/Canadian/Aussie women aren’t really like that at all.” Nope, they’re not doing that.

    Then there is the ugly subject of sex-cations/sex tourism. Some women travel abroad with the sole purpose of having sex with an “exotic” foreigner. (did you ever see how stella got her groove back? and every other film about women vacationing abroad trying to find themselves through dick)
    When I was living in Turkey, my coworker’s boyfriend and his friends told me that many Turkish men refer to Western women as “cum buckets” in the Turkish language especially the blondes. They said the name was given for two reasons 1. Western women who travel abroad just to get laid and 2. their skewed perspective based on internet, tv shows, and movies.

    Personally I think that your blog is correct BUT I also think that the combination of the other two ingredients; Western media and Sex tourism don’t help things. They make it worse.

    What say you?

    (happy new year by the way)

    • Caroline says:

      I had to reply with a resounding Yes to your response. I traveled in Asia for about 2 years and experienced a lot of harassment in some of the countries, especially India. I lived and worked in Japan for a year and became immersed in their culture, which is very modest. I then returned overland to India and had the misfortune to watch MTV on a screen in a tourist guest house. I was shocked – white women dressed and dancing like whores. I think we are unaware of how the world gets glimpses of our ‘culture’ but I then understood why the men there viewed me as sex.

  7. JGerhart says:

    I’m not condoning sexual harassment in any form, but has it ever occurred to you that Georgia men might be at least partially correct in their assumptions?

    Link: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-12-10/young-uk-women-more-promiscuous-than-men-survey/234836
    * By age 21, the average British female had sex with 9 partners.
    * More than half of respondents said they were not in love with the person they lost their virginity to and only 32 per cent believed it was important to be in love with someone before they had sex with them.
    * Of the women surveyed, 50 per cent admitted they had cheated on a partner and half of those had been unfaithful at least twice.

    Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/magazine/22Paternity-t.html?pagewanted=all
    [Editor’s Note: The following claim represents a significant misreading of the above-linked article. There is no factual basis presented in this article or elsewhere to support the following statement:]
    * About 30% of American husbands are raising children that they falsely believe to be their own. Yes, this means that over 30% (since 1 sexual intercourse != 1 pregnancy) of American women are cuckolding their husbands.

    • panoptical says:

      Not that it’s really relevant, but you might want to reread that NYTimes article. It really doesn’t say what you said it does.

      It’s ironic because in my Sex in Georgia posts, literally hundreds of Georgians leaped forward to defend the idea that Georgian women also have sex and that my opinion of Georgia as a socially conservative culture full of virgins was hopelessly antiquated – and now you’re one-upping them with (highly overblown) statistics about how promiscuous Western women are.

      You are missing the point – dramatically and spectacularly missing the point – just as much as they are.

      Sexual harassment has absolutely nothing to do with the average number of sexual partners women from the victim’s home country have had by the age of 21. A woman’s dislike of being stalked and badgered by strange men in a strange country is pristinely unrelated to the percentage of adulterous women in her native land.

      And honestly, I have trouble seeing your effort to tie the two together as anything other than misogynistic hate speech. “I’m not condoning sexual harassment in any form, but I am willing to imply that these women were asking for it by daring to come from countries where women enjoy sexual freedoms that have been traditionally reserved for men, like cheating on their spouses and having multiple partners before marriage.”

      So to answer your question: no, it never once occurred to me that Georgian men are correct in their assumption that all they have to do get a Western woman to fuck them is just show up and ask, because I am capable of conceiving of women who have the right to say yes AND the ability to say no. It’s just another consequence of this crazy idea I have that women are fully autonomous human beings with their own desires and preferences, rather than passive receptacles of male sexual desire.

      • JGerhart says:

        1) Yes, the NYT article does cite the specific study I mentioned. No, it was not the primary topic of the article. It is you who should reread the article.

        2) You’re correct in that sexual harassment is not directly caused by the number of sexual partners a woman has, but their level of promiscuity does affect cultural perceptions of how she behaves and assumptions about how she will react to sexual advances.

        I request that you recant the following statement: “a woman’s dislike of being stalked and badgered by strange men in a strange country is pristinely unrelated to the percentage of adulterous women in her native land.”

        The first sentence of my post clearly stated that I do not condone sexual harassment in any form and you have absolutely no right to put such words in my mouth.

        3) You are unable to put the message together because you appear to be a male apologist.
        Western women are the most promiscuous in the world. On your blog, you’ve blamed everyone from the mass media to Georgian men for this stereotype, but western women – and western women alone – earned this title through their behavior.

        Am I bashing western women for having sex before marriage or having more than 1 sexual partner? Absolutely not. However, I am bashing the type of western woman openly admits that she has slept with 42 men by age 25. I’m also bashing the type of woman who has sex in a bar toilet stall with a man she met only 15 minutes ago.

        Even if we ignore these more extreme examples, it’s still a fact that western women are far more promiscuous than Georgian women (and men). A Georgian man knows damned well that he is at least ten times more likely to get laid by a western woman than a Georgian woman IF she finds him attractive.

        Western women are easier and that is a fact.

        4) Despite your numerous posts on cultural observations, you remain blissfully ignorant to the reward magnitude western women have to many Georgian men. I’ve sufficiently covered them being easy, but that doesn’t explain marriage requests.

        Has it ever occurred to you that Georgian men are so persistent because marrying a foreign woman offers him the chance to live and work in a more developed country?
        Even as a male, I get this from Georgian women. I came here expecting to run into some of this and western women would be damn fools to come here not expecting it. If dealing with this is such an inconvenience, perhaps these women should refrain from traveling to developing nations in the future.

        5) I once again reiterate that I do not support harassment or violence against others in any form and nothing in this post justifies or supports using coercion against others.

        • panoptical says:

          1.
          I apologize in advance for being condescending and pedantic and stubborn, but I just can’t let this admittedly minor and largely irrelevant point go. In the interest of not having the argument devolve any further, I’ll quote the relevant passages from the article you cited here:

          “Of course, the men who take the tests already question their paternity, and for about 30 percent of them, their hunch is right.”

          “The most extensive and authoritative report, published in Current Anthropology in 2006, analyzed scores of genetic studies. The report concluded that 2 percent of men with “high paternity confidence” — married men who had every reason to believe they were their children’s father — were, in fact, not biological parents.”

          So, if you already see where you went wrong, then read no further. Otherwise…

          The first sentence refers to men who voluntarily seek out paternity tests – normally, one would infer based on the content of this article, in order to resolve child support payment issues – because they suspect that the child they are supporting might not be theirs. That’s what “Of course, the men who take the tests already question their paternity” means.

          When we want to make inferences about a large group of people based on information about a smaller group of people, we must make certain that the smaller group and the larger group are similar with respect to the data point we are trying to infer. In other words, we must make sure that we select a representative sample.

          Men who seek out paternity tests in child support cases are not a representative sample of all husbands. In fact, they are not husbands at all – they are ex-husbands. Typically we would not draw conclusions about husbands by looking at data from ex-husbands, since ex-husbands are not husbands and thus there is an unacceptably high likelihood that ex-husbands are not representative of husbands.

          In addition, the men who voluntarily take paternity tests because they question their paternity create what we call a “self-selected” group – in other words, rather than a social scientist selecting a sample group that might represent the full population, these men selected themselves for paternity tests. As a thought exercise, consider which group might have a higher rate of failed matches in paternity tests: all husbands, or men who have a strong suspicion that the children they are raising are not theirs.

          In case all this critical thinking is too much for the reader (a reasonable assumption given the quality of articles published in the Times), the author later goes on to spell out, in the second sentence that I quoted, exactly how paternity data applies to husbands with no reason to suspect their paternity. As you can see, the number given – which is the only number in the entire article that comes with an actual citation of the study or report which it came from – is 2 percent.

          So, to recap:
          1. No, the article does not cite a study for the 30 percent number that you mentioned;
          2. Also, the article says that the 30 percent number that you mentioned refers to 30 percent of men with good reasons to suspect their paternity, not 30 percent of all husbands;
          3. The report that the article *does* cite says that studies show that 2 percent of husbands are mistaken about paternity, not 30 (a number which is still disturbingly high, but an order of magnitude lower than what you said).

        • panoptical says:

          2.

          You’re correct in that sexual harassment is not directly caused by the number of sexual partners a woman has, but their level of promiscuity does affect cultural perceptions of how she behaves and assumptions about how she will react to sexual advances.

          So you’re saying that sexual harassment is indirectly caused by the number of sexual partners a woman has.

          Assumptions about how a woman will react to sexual advances do not amount to an explanation for how Georgian men behave towards Western women.

          First of all, I say again, there is a difference between the kind of woman who is open to the idea of having sex with a man and the kind of woman who will have sex with any man, anywhere, if he just asks her enough times. The difference is that the first kind of woman exists. Women can be promiscuous and selective at the same time – there are billions of men in the world, which means that even a woman who has had a thousand sexual partners can still truthfully claim that her odds of fucking a particular man is less than one in a million.

          Second of all, not all sexual advances are equivalent. “Do you want sex” is a sexual advance that is highly likely to fail, especially if it is one of the first things you say to a woman. “Will you marry me” is another, especially if said within thirty minutes of meeting someone.

          Third, even if you do have assumptions about how a woman will respond to sexual advances, don’t you think that after you make sexual advances and the woman fails to respond as expected you should pause for a moment to reevaluate what you have been told? Assumptions are what we have in the absence of empirical data, not in spite of it.

          I request that you recant the following statement: “a woman’s dislike of being stalked and badgered by strange men in a strange country is pristinely unrelated to the percentage of adulterous women in her native land.”

          I stand by this statement unless you can offer an argument that explains how or why a woman’s dislike of being stalked and badgered by strange men in a strange country is linked to the percentage of adulterous women in her native land.

        • panoptical says:

          3.

          Western women are the most promiscuous in the world. On your blog, you’ve blamed everyone from the mass media to Georgian men for this stereotype, but western women – and western women alone – earned this title through their behavior.

          I don’t recall ever addressing the reasons behind stereotypes about Western women. Also, I don’t regard promiscuity as wrong, bad, or a reason to treat women as less than human. Also, I don’t view the source of stereotypes as relevant to discussions of how stereotypes are harmful and why acting on stereotypes is stupid and wrong.

          I am bashing the type of western woman openly admits that she has slept with 42 men by age 25. I’m also bashing the type of woman who has sex in a bar toilet stall with a man she met only 15 minutes ago.

          And I am bashing the type of man who bashes women for their private personal choices just because he doesn’t happen to like them when I say that men who do that are assholes.

          Even if we ignore these more extreme examples, it’s still a fact that western women are far more promiscuous than Georgian women (and men).

          Western women are more promiscuous than Georgian men? I would be really interested to see if you can corroborate that statement.

          Western women are easier and that is a fact.

          And it’s charmingly antiquated that you have a problem with that. Or it would be if it wasn’t causing you to repeatedly excuse and defend abhorrent behavior while simultaneously denying that that is what you are doing.

        • panoptical says:

          4.

          Has it ever occurred to you that Georgian men are so persistent because marrying a foreign woman offers him the chance to live and work in a more developed country?

          Not really, but again, that’s because I don’t devote all that much time to wondering why Georgian men behave irrationally and inappropriately towards women all the time. To me it seems like all men would behave that way if they could get away with it, and my way of addressing that situation is to try to create conditions in society that don’t allow them to get away with it. This involves things like raising awareness of the situations that women face in order to shift cultural perceptions, making clear condemnations of this behavior in public and in private, and shifting the burden of shame from women who exercise their rights as humans to the men who abuse those rights.

          Again it seems like you’re victim-blaming. If you got robbed and someone asked you if it had ever occurred to you that the reason why you were robbed is because the other person wanted something that you had, what would your response be?

          perhaps these women should refrain from traveling to developing nations in the future.

          In other words, women shouldn’t travel if they don’t want to be treated like sexual objects.

          I suspect most women actually do know this and those who travel anyway do so because not being able to do cool things because of your gender is, on balance, more irritating than putting up with idiots who can’t control themselves around women. I also don’t see what it has to do with cultural perceptions of sexual harassment.

          5.

          I once again reiterate that I do not support harassment or violence against others in any form and nothing in this post justifies or supports using coercion against others.

          You don’t *support* harassment or violence, but you *totally* get it. I mean, those sluts were asking for it.

  8. Anonymous says:

    I haven’t read the comments, but I have to leave my own. I don’t give a crap what the average ignorant Georgian male thinks about western women. At least us “slutty western women” don’t sit around toasting loyalty to our men ALL NIGHT jabbering on and on about how much we admire them and RESPECT them only to STAB them in the back and go fuck whores later on in the evening like it’s nothing. We westerners visiting this country (which claims to be european, and we somehow believe wants to progress towards more western ways of thinking) need to lead by example, because the truth is that many Georgians never get to leave the country and are never exposed to ANYTHING in the outside world. Speak up and speak out, Neil you are brave.

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  10. tcjogden69 says:

    Found this very interesting, Neal. My interactions with ravishing young American women have been limited to my trips to the United States (Alexandra and Taylor, if you’re reading this, you girls were awesome. You made me love my own accent), so I dread to think what it’s like for them in Georgia. I found these attitudes very difficult to deal with at first, since if you stare at someone’s girlfriend in Britain you’ll be flat on your back staring at the sky soon enough, and my wife had to restrain me from trying to spark out the male population of Tbilisi during our first few days together. I also didn’t like how as soon as our wives were safely out of earshot they’d be looking sideways and then anxiously whispering ‘So, so…English girls?!’. These days I like to toy with them, I tell them how damned easy it is to get laid in Britain and I love watching their jaws drop and their miserable gaze rest on their pregnant wife.
    You didn’t mention it here (it wasn’t really the point, I know), but I’ve found that this attitude of ‘Western women are whores’ also extends to female Georgians. I don’t know about you, but I’m friends with a fair few of my ex-girlfriends from years past, but that was something Natia really struggled with. She was acting like she wanted me to apologise for the way I’d lived my life, for sleeping with ‘whores’ and still being friends with them and we had an almighty row over it. Back then, she didn’t know British culture and I didn’t know Georgia’s, so as far as she was concerned I was a brothel-haunter, and from my perspective I’d lived my life the way it seemed most natural.
    I’d like your opinion on something else, too. Have you come across these Georgian girls who dress and act in a rather suggesting manner, but when it comes down to business suddenly invoke the Orthodox traditions. I’ll tell you more when we go for that drink, I just wondered if you’d come across that much in your time here.

  11. Roisin - UK says:

    I have travelled to a number of countries with different cultures. The USA has a very bad reputation with the exception of the playgrounds. England has football hooligans running riot abroad. Russians trade in sex, drugs & thugs, Eastern Europeans are devious & courageous, Africans are diseased & cause the downfall of Western Civilization. These are ignorant blanket comments made by people who can not cope with other cultures.
    As a women it is hard to watch the way women are portrayed in the media. Sex sells & nothing sells better than a scantily clad, perfect shaped, pouting young women. I see it every weekend, young women in the December freeze with mini skirts, bare legs, cleavage hanging out (often pulling their tops downs & laughing) high heels & absolutely drunk silly. At what stage did they consider their safety?
    When I have travelled I have dressed appropriately according to the location, when I get approached, I shy away, smile politely & start walking away however I always chose a safe route. I have been harassed in England just as much as in any other country.
    I have never been to Georgia but my brother in law is from there & I can honestly say with my hand on my heart that he was probably the nicest gentleman I have ever encountered. My sister moved to Georgia & told me about some of the traditions there – we would consider them as an insult but Western man has a terrible reputation for his treatment of women which Georgian women would find insulting.
    You can theorise as much as you like but until you have experienced it your point of view should be more objective, this is why I feel your post fails you.
    In my opinion MOST women are by their very nature open, polite & unassuming, Most men by their nature are predatory, territorial & narcissistic.
    One person commented on the comfort she got from her father & her father is a wise man – in time attitudes will change but you have to allow them to change at the speed that particular country operates.
    Georgia, unlike the USA, has had an extremely troubled past & lost a huge number of it’s men to battles & wars not to mention Georgia’s desire to be returned to it’s independence. This is not an offer of an excuse but it is reality in any country that has had a major outside power controlling or influencing it.
    Your comment is one piece of a 500 piece of a jigsaw puzzle.

    • Dear Roisin, its been a pleasure reading your post. I would put my sign under this phrase of yours -“Your comment is one piece of a 500 piece of a jigsaw puzzle”. I am Georgian that had been raised both in Georgia and Russia, the Georgia’s archenemy with friendly mask. The sad truth is that during USSR, Georgian male population had been driven away from moral cods of older generation. They were exposed to and spoiled by women coming to Georgia precisely for what is called “sex” tourism. It had damaged us greatly. The test of ancient nobility failed, since truly noble man never differentiate women by their behavior, he just being noble in any situation or he is not a “raindi” (a gentleman) . But I do believe in time this nation of ours so reach in history, art and passions of life , will be restored to a healthy state, shedding away corrupted ways and habits. I truly believe this.

  12. Pingback: Rape Culture vs. Traditional Culture | Georgia On My Mind

  13. Brilliant piece. Exposes the illusions of Georgian society. I have used this blog to support my latest post about The Georgian Witch.

    Where are the Georgian witches? Why have they been obliterated by education and history? Why do Georgian girls learn by rote romantic illusion from The Knight in the Panter’s Skin for their ‘bridal trousseau?’ Educate the women properly about their magnificent fore mothers and you might get Georgian women finding their own voices.

    http://sarahcobham1.blogspot.co.uk/

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